Curse

Shriketalon · Oct 21, 2010, 08:24 PM // 20:24

Quote:

Originally Posted by lemming

As an aside: what exactly do you believe "elitist" to mean?

Like any good pundit, Elitist means "people I disagree with and want to portray in a bad light so I can avoid acknowledging or refuting their claims."

cantalus · Oct 21, 2010, 08:42 PM // 20:42

Quote:

Originally Posted by jazilla

yeah you are right. i wish there was a way to treat the zaishen keys like golden eggs where you only get the points if they "drop" for you

i have a feeling there are a lot of players at the ANET office that don't PvP but wanted 50/50 in their HoM.

But seriously.

and if they do pvp, they bbway in HA, before that they swayed, and before that they iwayed, and they only care about their next rank and emote

*lemming* · Oct 21, 2010, 09:45 PM // 21:45

Quote:

Originally Posted by Essence Snow

Some of the PvE titles may be acheived in less time via PvP alone. Just buy them! Don't want to spend the time to go cap that pet?...Buy It! Don't want to spend the time farming all those sweet/drunk/party points?...But 'em! Don't wan't to spend all the time farming all those unidents for wisdom?.....Buy them! Don't want to spend all that time capping elites?...Buy the title!

This is not a one way street. Both PvP and PvE have purchasable titles. Heck I just started buying/leeching fame. I really doubt many players would care if anyone bought any/all of the PvE titles. There is also a matter of how ppl earn the "flow" to buy titles on either side of the fence, but that is a whole other ball game.

That's not quite the point.

The argument for keeping Zaishen a PvP title is that zkeys earned through PvP are the only way to measure PvP activity in formats that don't have directly associated PvP title tracks. Therefore, the implication is that if zkeys are only obtainable through PvP, then it would serve as a reasonably useful measure.

However, this is obviously not the case. The fact that not only can zkeys be obtained without an iota of PvP, but that it's actually both quicker and easier for 95% of the playerbase to do so, invalidates the usage of the Zaishen title as any sort of gauge for PvP done.

In contrast, the consumable titles aren't being used as indicators of any specific title track.

Your comparison of titles being bought in PvP also doesn't work. There's only two ways of doing it - either you pay to get in groups, or you manipulate. The latter should be discounted since it's a bannable violation of the EULA. As for the former, even if you're on the least skill-intensive role in the team, you still need to know how to actually play the game - you can't just afk it. Therefore, there's still PvP going on.

Quote:

Originally Posted by Shriketalon

Like any good pundit, Elitist means "people I disagree with and want to portray in a bad light so I can avoid acknowledging or refuting their claims."

Touché.

drkn · Oct 21, 2010, 10:21 PM // 22:21

Quote:

After all, I imagine that you wouldn't be happy if PvE monuments and titles could be obtained in less time through exclusively PvPing.

You simply ignore the fact that MOST PvE titles/statues can be bought, either in a form of consumables (alcohol, tomes, sweets, party items, unid golds) or AFK runs (just get a high IMS build to map the area after VQ, pay the runner and go walk the dog). It's just the same as buying Zaishen keys. And you can get the money required to buy PvE titles by playing PvP only and selling your ZKeys to those 'silly little pvers that can't play in real pvp and have to buy their statue'.
The above was repeated several times. Yet still, buying a PvP statue - not even a max title! - is a desecration done by the unworthy on The Holy Ground of Real PvP, while the ability to do the very same on the other side, with more stuff than one statue, is being carefully ignored.

Sidenote: yes, i assume that 'AFK time = less time than actually playing', so that buying a run and going AFK is still 'less time' than doing it yourself, even if it physically takes the runner longer.

@down
It might actually be the first time i agree with Morphy.

Lews · Oct 21, 2010, 10:22 PM // 22:22

Quote:

Originally Posted by Morphy

/signed

The Zaishen title should have been based on the total amount of Balthazar faction you've accumulated from the start.

I agree with this.

prinzess of life · Oct 21, 2010, 10:45 PM // 22:45

So just because the OP has rank 3 Gladiator which is 400 pts , which is only 1% of the total titel (max gladiator is 40.000) he deserves a better reward than PvE'ers that chose to max out all their PvE titels... If thats the case then i want every PvE titles to be put in HoM as soon as you reach 1% of it's maximum. Let's see Sunspear monument at 500 pts , wisdom at 100 id's , Savior at 100.000, mapping a 1%...

Let them wannabe PvP work for their special title the monument should only be available at at least rank 10 Gladiator that would only be fair and stop all further discusions...

jazilla · Oct 21, 2010, 11:10 PM // 23:10

Quote:

Originally Posted by lemming

The fact that not only can zkeys be obtained without an iota of PvP, but that it's actually both quicker and easier for 95% of the playerbase to do so, invalidates the usage of the Zaishen title as any sort of gauge for PvP done.

In contrast, the consumable titles aren't being used as indicators of any specific title track.

^Truth and the gist of why i made this thread in the first place. The Z-Title counting cheapens the other PvP titles for those involved that actually took part in PvP in a meaningful way. That is all anyone on this side of the argument is saying. There are other great arguments that I may not agree with here, but I see their points as well.

@Prinzess: I posted my character name in this thread too. Just in case you want to put it in the calculator. Instead of just throwing around barbed words, try entering the discussion and coming up with some solutions. There just has to be a better way than having the Z-Title be the way it is. I could also just say, "Who cares, I got my 50/50 so whatevs" but I didn't.

prinzess of life · Oct 21, 2010, 11:42 PM // 23:42

Well you ask for solutions, here is one. Instead of 40 statues to max the honor part every PvP statue should count as 10 PvE statues this way someone totaly into PvP would only need them 4 PvP titles to get his 18/18 out of Honor , happy? So you everyone can chose getting all 40 PvE statues or geting only 4 PvP statues , this way PvP'ers are not forced into doing the PvE titles and vis-versa.

*lemming* · Oct 21, 2010, 11:53 PM // 23:53

Quote:

Originally Posted by drkn

You simply ignore the fact that MOST PvE titles/statues can be bought, either in a form of consumables (alcohol, tomes, sweets, party items, unid golds) or AFK runs (just get a high IMS build to map the area after VQ, pay the runner and go walk the dog). It's just the same as buying Zaishen keys. And you can get the money required to buy PvE titles by playing PvP only and selling your ZKeys to those 'silly little pvers that can't play in real pvp and have to buy their statue'.

I'd argue that having a pve character at all makes it vastly different.

Quote:

Originally Posted by prinzess of life

So just because the OP has rank 3 Gladiator which is 400 pts , which is only 1% of the total titel (max gladiator is 40.000) he deserves a better reward than PvE'ers that chose to max out all their PvE titels... If thats the case then i want every PvE titles to be put in HoM as soon as you reach 1% of it's maximum. Let's see Sunspear monument at 500 pts , wisdom at 100 id's , Savior at 100.000, mapping a 1%...

Not relevant at all.

prinzess of life · Oct 22, 2010, 12:11 AM // 00:11

You cut the relevant part out of my post which is LET THEM WANNABE PVP WORK FOR IT an make the statue only available when the title is almost maxed or at it's 3rd last tier. R3 Gladiator is only a matter of time it doesn't make you a good PvP player to get it...

Lews · Oct 22, 2010, 12:16 AM // 00:16

Quote:

Originally Posted by prinzess of life

You cut the relevant part out of my post which is LET THEM WANNABE PVP WORK FOR IT an make the statue only available when the title is almost maxed or at it's 3rd last tier. R3 Gladiator is only a matter of time it doesn't make you a good PvP player to get it...

One could make the argument that all titles are merely a matter of time and don't require the player to be good (at PvE or PvP) to get them.

Pritst Of Death · Oct 22, 2010, 01:39 AM // 01:39

Quote:

Originally Posted by prinzess of life

You cut the relevant part out of my post which is LET THEM WANNABE PVP WORK FOR IT an make the statue only available when the title is almost maxed or at it's 3rd last tier. R3 Gladiator is only a matter of time it doesn't make you a good PvP player to get it...

ya but anyone with over r8 glad did ta for it and if i'm correct i don't think anyone has it maxed yet for the record and kruz/luxon only need 550k to put in hom so close enough the 100k you asked there not really doing it off %'s but how long they think it should take to max the title out and basing that level to put that in the hom. and as a side note you don't need 2 be a good pve'er to get gwamm just time heros will do all the work for you expessially with the new 7 hero set up comming out

Del · Oct 22, 2010, 01:41 AM // 01:41

Quote:

Originally Posted by prinzess of life

R3 Gladiator is only a matter of time it doesn't make you a good PvP player to get it...

And higher rank mean better, how? Rank is a measure of experience, not skill.

jazilla · Oct 22, 2010, 05:21 AM // 05:21

Quote:

Originally Posted by prinzess of life

You cut the relevant part out of my post which is LET THEM WANNABE PVP WORK FOR IT an make the statue only available when the title is almost maxed or at it's 3rd last tier. R3 Gladiator is only a matter of time it doesn't make you a good PvP player to get it...

the point we are trying to make is that people should have to step foot into PvP to get the PvP reward for the HoM.

MithranArkanere · Oct 22, 2010, 07:54 AM // 07:54

If you made a 'real' PvP title as a requirement, you'll get annoyed players that don't really want to do PvP messing with PvP modes.

I think that one RR day was one RR day too many.

prinzess of life · Oct 22, 2010, 08:23 AM // 08:23

The point you are trying to make is anyone who has gladiator rank 3 wants a better reward than people who don't do PvP at all. If you want that the HoM meter reflects that you have done everything in-game then the number of statues for honner should be 52 which means you have do get all PvP titles and LDoA aswell , and what about polymock ? Let there be a point for beating polymock.
To be honest there should be no points earned for PvP at all since the rewards you get are PvE rewards, but there should be PvP rewards aswell given only to the people who did PvP , something like Legendary Gladiator, Legendary Hero, Legendary Champion, Legendary Comander, Legendary Codex disciple, and for those who have all 5 the titles "Look my e-peen is bigger than yours!"

MithranArkanere · Oct 22, 2010, 12:36 PM // 12:36

Yes. PvP should be more rewarding. But the PvP rewards should fit PvP. Less shinies, and more merits.

jazilla · Oct 22, 2010, 01:31 PM // 13:31

Quote:

Originally Posted by prinzess of life

The point you are trying to make is anyone who has gladiator rank 3 wants a better reward than people who don't do PvP at all. If you want that the HoM meter reflects that you have done everything in-game then the number of statues for honner should be 52 which means you have do get all PvP titles and LDoA aswell , and what about polymock ? Let there be a point for beating polymock.
To be honest there should be no points earned for PvP at all since the rewards you get are PvE rewards, but there should be PvP rewards aswell given only to the people who did PvP , something like Legendary Gladiator, Legendary Hero, Legendary Champion, Legendary Comander, Legendary Codex disciple, and for those who have all 5 the titles "Look my e-peen is bigger than yours!"

There are plenty of titles which get you a statue at non-max rank(Kurz/Lux/Gamer/Zaishen/Lucky/Unlucky etc.). If this were another thread, I would argue that Treasure Hunter and Wisdom statues should be given at 5k chests opened. I am not talking about crazy grind. I'll say it again for you: I don't want people to have to spend crazy hours doing PvP, BUT they should have to do some PvP if they want a PvP reward for their HoM reward for GW2. Am I not typing it clearly enough?

I also commented on a thread that says to do away with the PvP reward altogether and I said that would be acceptable. As it stands now, people are getting a PvP reward without doing any PvP and that is what I take issue with.

prinzess of life · Oct 22, 2010, 02:24 PM // 14:24

I did more than enough PvP as i have earned a total of 3.181.995 Balthasar factions that alone gives me 636 Zaichen keys, enough to make my Zaichen titel a PvP earned titel. My 2 main PvP characters earned both 2 x 1.100.000 xp points in more than 1800 hours. I have done every single PvP that exists in game but i never had the right guild to earn champion points although i won and lost alot of GvG at one point, if a guild is not rated you get no titel...I did random arena well befor the gladiator title was invented and i can show you plenty of flawless and over 10 wins streaks , that was the time when PvP was fun and not a title grind ... maybe if they made the zaishen titel liked to the baltasar factions earned instead of making the z-keys sellable it would be recognized as a PvP titel by all, but then you would start QQ, ing that you can't make money of selling the z-keys.

To reach 50/50 should be accesible to anyone and not everyone has the time or the the friends to sync Random arena to get a titel that was easy earned by the the ppl like you that earned it when team arena was available. Because you can not tell me you earned it recently by playing in random arena where a 5 win streak is like a 6er in the lottery...every single win should go towards a titel and winning streaks should be rewarded with bonus points to make it accecible to anyone.

RedStar · Oct 22, 2010, 03:57 PM // 15:57

Quote:

To be honest there should be no points earned for PvP at all since the rewards you get are PvE rewards

That's where you are a tiny bit wrong. Once again 30/50 is not the same as 50/50.

Quote:

To reach 50/50 should be accesible to anyone

Yes...and no. Everyone can get it, but everyone shouldn't be handed it down to them because they don't like RA/HA/GvG/Codex.
Some people don't like DoA (or any Elite area) and the only way for them to get their statue is to do something they hate. Not because they are forced to but because they want to get their reward.
Back to our little "problem" (not really a problem, it's not like anyone is going to die because of it) : if someone wants the "I did pretty much everything title" then they should go and play both sides of the game.

And PvP titles weren't really made to be maxed, that's why they put the requirement at a "low" rank. Reputation titles don't take a lot of time ; the only titles are think are kind of exaggerated are wisdom and treasure hunter. But meh GW2 won't be out for a while.